The HME180 Podcast – Episode 8 – Tina Chen, Renowned Physical Therapist and Sue’s Sister

Introduction: Welcome, you’re listening to the HME180 Podcast. Every month, your host, Sue Chen will interview passionate experts in the HME industry who are fearless, innovative, and committed to their work. On this month’s episode, our special guest is Tina Chen, Renounced Physical Therapist, who worked at Cedars Sinai and had her own private practice. Tina also happens to be Sue’s sister.

Sue Chen: Hi, I’m Sue Chen. I’m the host of The HME180 Podcast, and welcome! Today, we have a very special guest for the podcast today, and it’s my sister, Tina Chen. She is a renowned physical therapist, a healer, and like my favorite person on the planet since she was born. I’m a huge admirer of hers on many levels, but today, I really felt like she could bring so much insight on the world of that we’re in, which is caring. Caring for people, helping them on the road of recovery, and really how powerful it is to come together as a community in doing that. And so Tina’s had a long career in empowering human ability. So maybe share with us your journey.

Tina Chen: Oh my gosh. Well, it’s just I’m so excited to be here with you guys, to be here with you, Sue. I mean, so much of who I am and who I’ve become is because you’ve literally been excited about me and my life and encouraging me and empowering me since even before I was born. So a lot of who I am is just due to somebody that’s been the best cheerleader that I can ever ask for my whole entire life. So I mean, we can save the tears for later, but I so appreciate being here and also who you are in my life is, you know it cannot be, it cannot be explained in words.

I love being a physical therapist. Our dad was an incredible healer. He had incredible compassion for people’s rehabilitative journey. He wasn’t just a doctor. He could have been any kind of doctor, but he chose to be a rehab doctor. And so I think that left a huge mark and imprint on our lives. You in a different way than me. But as you know, he was sick while we were growing up—we were five years apart—and so knowing his heart for people and seeing him help people in so many different ways in their rehabilitative and healing process, it just left a huge mark on me. And I was nine years old when he passed. And so, I thought I was going to be a doctor too. But as school was so difficult—medical school was so hard, I thought, “You know what? I actually think I would prefer to be a physical therapist,” and so that’s how my journey began. And being able to, instead of spending  6minutes or 10 minutes with a person, a person, I can spend an hour or more as much as I wanted, to guide them through the process of something traumatic happening to their body and bringing them to a point of independence and restoration.

SC: And you had a long career at Cedars Sinai Medical Center, which is a world renowned hospital, you know, really known for the hospital of the stars, but I have just—you have inspired me and NOVA so much because I have watched you transform people’s lives. And their families. From the point where they didn’t think anything was possible to where everything is possible. I always looked at you as like a miracle worker, but that’s what PTs and that’s what healthcare professionals do, and so maybe share with us what are some of the defining moments in your career as a PT when it relates to the potential of people.

TC: Yeah, that’s it. You know, as a physical therapist, you always—as a person, you just want to do the best at your job, and so for the first two years, you come out of school with this foundation of doing your best, trying to help people the best you can, but I went to a course with an incredible occupational therapist. I’m a physical therapist, but I was just open to what he was teaching. And it was basically about neural recovery and the potential of our nervous system, the potential of our brains to recover from stroke and from brain injury. And after taking that course and seeing what this man could do with people that have had strokes that were five years old, that had a hand that couldn’t move, and seeing what he did and how he changed their neural pathways to connect with their bodies. I think I went home and I cried because I thought for the last two years, I haven’t been doing the best that this person needs. And he had a quote that I’ll never forget, which was, “It’s not the patient that plateaus, it’s the therapist.”

And it taught me that really the sky’s the limit when you’re talking about neural recovery, when someone has a stroke and their body isn’t working, there is so much that you can do to facilitate the correct neural connection back to the body, because the muscles and the bones and the structures are all intact; it’s the connection from the brain to that body part that got damaged in the brain injury. And so if you can create an environment that the brain can feel normal again, those neurons are going to fire. They’re going to create special, little collateral sprouts that are going to connect with the body. And really, there’s so much potential there, with the person believing in themselves, with them seeing a change. But that environment has to be there, that facilitation has to be there, and the patient can’t do it alone. It has to be the therapist, even the dealers, the doctor, the whole team, the family, they all have to create this environment where their brain can feel normal again.

SC: Wow. That is so powerful, because it shows that the possibilities are there. The science is there. That your brain can create these pathways back to mobility and movement, but there needs to be that belief. But then the support and products.

TC: And products.

SC: It comes down to: you need products. You can’t do it alone. And that’s where this podcast and our dealer network is so powerful, you know, we know as a community how important it is to partner with a dealer. And so maybe let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about products. Because when someone is, say, at a point where they can barely take a step, and then you know that maybe in six months, they might be walking, they might be walking quickly. But that journey is going to need product. So let’s talk about what the expectations are when a patient is released from the hospital and they are assigned a physical therapist. What are the products that the hospital gives them?

TC: First of all, I think there’s a mentality of the hospital is going to provide me something, the insurance is going to provide me something, and usually that is supposed to come at no cost. And those products, usually because they’re contracted, are the lowest quality product or the cheapest type. So you might get a walker, but it doesn’t have wheels, or it doesn’t have Walker skis, or it’s just the basic, basic model of what a person might need for the most safe environment for their mobility. But sometimes it’s overkill, and actually sometimes with those walkers and those items that are not good quality, or they don’t move enough, or they don’t have the right kind of adjustments. That’s where the dealer has to step in, work with the therapist, the family has to say, you know, my family member isn’t moving that well, because now they they’ve been out for a week or two, and they can they need something that has a little bit more movement. But sometimes the family has no clue. The patient doesn’t have a clue. They just are feeling bad. They’re dealing with their recovery.

So I feel like it’s like a magic triad, where it’s dealer, the therapist and the family have to work together in order to create the best opportunity for the person to make the next step to their recovery. Because sometimes it’s the family member that has to speak up and say, “Hey, mom or dad or my brother or sister, this is not really working out for them. I think they need something more stable, or they need something with more mobility.” Or it’s the therapist that says, “Oh, this person’s progressing incredibly. Now it’s time for a walker. Let’s get them something that’s standing that they can stand in. Or let’s get something that has a seat so they can go outside and rest.”

The person is dynamic. The recovery is dynamic. They’re always going to be changing. So those three parties, the therapist, the dealer and the family, are all the patient’s advocates and with the right kind of care and compassion, even just a check in from any of those parties with the other—and it doesn’t have to be only the therapist or only the dealer, only the family—it’s all three working together at the right moment to help the person get to the next step.

SC: You said a word that really resonated, and it’s dynamic. We want the recovery, the journey, to be dynamic, because that’s the goal, that is the hope is that it’s dynamic, and with that meaning that we hope that that dynamic is positive. And so a check in. And so when the family, and comes to the dealer and says, Okay, we’re kind of in this mode of crisis, whereas Mom’s coming home from the hospital, we needed these few things. And there was this kind of fear point, this crisis point, and then you get things situated for right now. But then things are happening. They’re progressing. And so maybe a dealer, I think a wonderful thing to do would be to check in.

TC: Definite check in. And if you think about it, I mean, I know this analogy. I don’t ever want to compare, you know, a patient or a client to a child, because I know that sometimes that’s sensitive. But if you think about a child that’s just learning to walk again, and they’re just starting to get up, they use different things. They have something to help them stand. They have something to help support their bottom. Sometimes they have a standing frame where they can turn around. I mean, you never use the same thing forever. Soon they’re going to need something less, less supportive. And so as anyone learning to walk, even a baby or a toddler, a person learning to walk is an entire process, that it might need more than one device.

And I think sometimes people get out of the hospital thinking, I have everything I need. Well, you don’t really have everything you need. If that person has had a very debilitating physical change, you can’t just go from wheelchair or a standing walker to independence without having to change your ambulatory devices. It’s just part of the process and the mentality of thinking that the hospital is going to provide all of that free of cost or to your insurance? It’s just a mentality that is not going to work for the patient’s best interest, because you have to be able to change the devices in order to make them adaptable to the person’s point in their recovery.

SC: Yeah, I don’t think Medicare insurance, you can bill for progress. They really kind of keep things at a very static point and not dynamic. Let’s talk about falls, because this is something that we’ve talked about a lot, and so much of your time when you’re working with patients and families, is preventing falls, because that could create a huge setback. And so maybe kind of talk about the products, especially in the bathroom.

TC:  The bathroom. I think you know anytime that you have somebody that is whether it’s 50% less of their normal, I always ask a patient this, if 100% is your normal, where do you feel right now? Do you feel 50% of your normal, regular self? And that includes mental health, that includes your ability to, like, get something from the refrigerator, or go to the bathroom, or get up from the toilet, all of those things make that 100% and let’s say you’re 50%. What is the 50% that’s missing? Okay? Well, I can’t quite get into the bathtub without getting really nervous, or sometimes when I’m sitting on the toilet, after a long day, I have a hard time getting up. So it could be that in the morning they’re okay, but at the end of the day, they’re not okay. So you kind of have to ask the right question to see, what is the gap between that—what’s that 50% What’s that 10% is it that they get a little nervous when XYZ? So I think that’s going to help anybody, the therapist, the dealer, the family, pick the right item. Because you don’t want to enable, but you always want safety.

So once they get to the point where safety is attained, then you can modify the area so that maybe that’s not used anymore, or that’s not used as much, or let’s give it a try. Let’s go from handlebars over the toilet to just a raised toilet seat, or you have handlebars and a raised toilet seat, and then you take one away once it’s very clear that they’re independent with doing that, or they’re able to do it without one or the other. So just like any progress, you have to continually assess, “Hey, how’s it going with that? Does it feel super easy, or does it feel still a little bit hard? What could make this process easier and make you feel safer?” Because if you see the person constantly furniture walking, that is not a good sign. Anytime that furniture is unstable, they could fall down. So they need to have complete control of their independence and feel safe and comfortable, walking, moving, getting something, doing their activities of daily living, and whenever they don’t feel quite secure, then you ask the question, “Well, what could make this easier? Is it a reacher? Is it a sock aid? Is it a higher chair? Is it walker skis? Is it a seat in your walker? There’s so many things that could make something easier, to make that person feel comfortable, that they can do it themselves.

SC: That is a great way to communicate that, that it’s a continual assessment. And what I’ve shared with people before is: share with me areas in your daily life where you feel some struggle, and I like the way you say, where it’s not 100%. Because people assume that there’s no solution. And I was like, “Well, don’t worry about that, because that’s my area of specialty,” and that’s our area specialty for the dealers is that, “Don’t assume there isn’t a solution, because I’m a solution person.”

So we recently just came out with a quad tip that helps you get your shoe on and off. Amazing, right? So not only can you, you don’t have to bend over, but then you have some stability there. To me, that’s a game changer. So even something like. That, because you’re going to put on your shoes every time you walk out.

TC: Every single day.

SC: If you struggle there, don’t assume there isn’t a solution, because now there is. So that’s what I say to people, is that just share with me where you have struggles and where you have some fear points, and then let me address them and I write them down. And that’s what our dealers do. So that’s why it is that triad of community of care, all advocating for that patient, customer, that human we love so much.

TC: And just as much as physical therapists take notes and keep notes on each person, the family should do the same, and even the dealer should do the same to just be—it means so much when someone remembers, “Hey, this is where your mom was at. How are they doing now? Do you think that maybe they’re ready for this next thing, this next thing that is like, oh, walker to rollator?” Or maybe they’re ready for, this next thing that helps their life become more easy and they have feel more independent, and you just kind of check these things off one by one, so that the person feels like they’re actually making progress. You can show you know that there’s been a change from two weeks ago to now. You were able to do this now when it was hard two weeks ago. And I think that’s just a mental boost for the person to just see the progress instead of seeing the things that they can’t do.

SC: Oh, such a great way to look at it. And then how about the role of the family? Because you’ve worked with—whenever I hear you talk about your patients, it’s never just the patient, it’s the whole family, and the whole family is involved, and sometimes that can be a very precarious relationship, when someone is on a journey. What would be some good kind of takeaways or good feedback you can give to families taking care of someone, or in that journey of PT.

TC:  I think that whenever you have somebody that’s close to you that you love, obviously there’s the relational dynamic between you and that person. Let’s say it’s our mom, or let’s say it’s anybody that we love, there’s always a little bit of that dynamic that you have to consider. So if it’s a family member that there’s already tension, it’s important to, I think, think about the perspective of that person. But also think about more than just what the stress that’s over yourself, it’s also how that person might feel.

For example, I just went on a trip with our mom, and I was 100% of the time thinking, what does she need? What does she need? What does she need? How can I make this experience better for her? But in the end, I ended up stressing myself out because there were things that she wanted to do for herself, and I was trying to anticipate every need. When she said, “I got it, I can handle it.” I wasn’t really listening. And so I think being we have this thing between the two of us where we always talk about positive help and negative help, because there’s some people that want to help and it’s not actually that helpful, because maybe they’re not really listening, or they’re not seeing the situation for all of the sides and all the layers.

So I think being able to even as a dealer or as a family member, whoever’s dealing with the person that’s having the most struggle, the family member, can definitely also be in a very stressful place, but being able to be vulnerable about how we’re feeling, “Hey, I think I’m feeling a little bit too smothered,” or “I’m feeling like maybe it’s a caregiver that needs to step in instead of the daughter or instead of the son, a couple times a week so that that person gets a break.” It seems like a choice that could be obvious, but sometimes a person, a family member, doesn’t want to let go of control, and it’s hard to kind of hand over the reins to someone else when you’re so concerned about that person’s wellbeing. But I think the mental state is also so important. So the idea of, I think being positive help to the person as a whole is a great place to start thinking. And the check ins, “Hey, am I being too much? “I had to ask my mom. My mom was like, you know, “I used to be able to do that, but now I you’ve been doing everything for me. So now I haven’t been thinking about how to be independent, because you’re, you’re helping me too much.” And I had to kind of realize that, yeah, that I had to take a step back, and even for myself, realize that I was being too much help, and I think you have to be the right amount of help.

SC:  And I think that constant check in is such a great love language, and we don’t do it enough. And I feel like at a point where I might feel frustrated, I remind myself now, just take a deep breath, check in with that person, and that usually makes things better and more clear.

TC: And checking in with yourself also to make sure that you take a breather. As a caregiver, it’s hard. even as a dealer, your managing, so many people, I don’t know how many, 50, 60, different clients, sometimes it gets overwhelming hearing all the stories of the trauma of my family member this happened. I need help. And so sometimes there is trauma that happens. You know, just from being in that job of hearing all of those devastating things happen over and over again, and some people might need a break or just to vocalize that I have a little vicarious trauma from hearing about everyone’s devastation.

SC: Yes, yes. So like Ken Druck said, we have to start with taking care of ourselves.

TC: It’s true. It’s true. You know, right now I’ve been in Mexico City for eight years, and we’ve been working with an anti-human trafficking organization and talking about just healing of the whole person and that vicarious trauma. You know, sometimes you have the best intentions, but you have to be able to separate yourself from that person and be—that’s the best way to be able to be the best help is to not take home things from them, even though you care so much. And as so many of the dealers, I’m sure they do.

SC: What I often wonder, that with you, because you give so much to your patients and in your career as a PT, but now in Mexico City—Tina moved to Mexico City eight years ago. She and Randy and my niece and nephew her kids, the calling to work with El Pozo de Vida, and they rescue people from human trafficking. And so you have been healing continuously now.

TC: It’s an honor to just be in that environment where you know what is what is it that we have loved seeing since we were kids, since our dad it’s seeing the transformation happen, seeing the restoration happen. Even if somebody like with Parkinson’s, or somebody that has a disease, that process that is difficult to improve, you’re still improving their quality of life. You know, there isn’t anything that you can’t improve. That’s, I think we learned from our mom and dad, right? The Asian way. There isn’t anything you can’t improve, even if something is going downhill. It’s cancer, it’s a brain tumor, it’s horrible disease processes that don’t really have the light of the tunnel that ends in independence. But you can still improve their quality of life, even in the direction that it’s going. And I think in the work that we’re doing. You know, we get to see a lot of restoration, but there’s a lot—the journey from point A to B is never straight, and so there’s a lot of sometimes setbacks. You cannot let yourself get down, because there’s always a turning point. There’s always some hopeful peace that you can hold on to, that inspires and I think that no matter what the situation, there’s always that hope to hold on to. I live in hope, and so do you.

SC: That’s why I’m so proud of you.

TC: I’m so proud of you. You’re a superwoman.

SC: I am so proud of you, the human being you are and the people that you have healed and transformed.

TC: I mean, it is really a testament to, you know, restore, restorative hope, restorative love that anybody can have. You can be anyone, and you can give that to another person, and that is going to bring them to a point of closer healing. You don’t have to be a therapist or anything, just you’re just as much as a healer, just in your conversation, just in your attitude, just in your energy.

So I have some questions.

SC: Okay.

TC: I hava some questions. You know, you started NOVA when I was a freshman at UC Irvine.

SC: Wow.

TC: I mean, that was like 1993 and it’s been three decades. I mean, how do you look back and how do you see that journey you were so you were a baby. I was you started this company.

SC: Gosh, who is that girl? I think about that. I think about that, that girl back then, and I’m like like, wow, if she knew back then what a blessing the next 30 years we’re going to be—I am so grateful. I feel like I’ve had the very best job I can imagine. The people at NOVA are so phenomenal. I mean, I truly they are my family too, as much as blood family. We have people at NOVA that have been here for decades, that have devoted their whole lives here. Their kids are here now, and so that I just feel like we have been so blessed as a company because of the people here at NOVA.

And then our dealers? Like I’m in love with our dealers, and from the very beginning, I remember that that was something that I was most excited about, was meeting our dealers and getting to know them. And they have carried this company. All the things we’ve done as a company is because of our connection with our dealers. And it’s their passion and their commitment to improving people’s lives that has built this company. And that is the other great blessing of NOVA, is this incredible network of dealers and the incredible human beings that are out there helping people.

TC: I think one thing I think about is when you when you talk about “empowering human ability,” you think, okay, that’s empowering human ability with our beautiful products, with NOVA beautiful products. You know, the vision of our dad empowering human ability. That’s what he lived off of. That’s what his heart was all about. But you do that, not just with the product, but with the person that uses the product, with the person that sells to the person that’s going to be using the product, with the person that works for the company that’s working with the person. So you are empowering human ability across the board. And I think that’s why people love NOVA, is because you shared that heart of empowerment and all of the beauty that comes in the mission and the purpose that you know, our dad really, like, had the spark for, and then you took it and you just, like, totally exploded it into this beautiful company that has beautiful products that is really thinking about the person and what they need. So he would be so proud of this company and the person—I think it’s beyond his wildest dreams, beyond what this company has become.

SC: I’m gonna get emotional. I think so. I think he would be. I think he is. I think he’s so very present. I think he is so proud. And I think that, you know, his passion is, is all of our dealers and all the people that we serve, and that’s to empower and to improve.

TC: Gotta spread the love, spread the joy.

SC: Any last questions since you were asking me,

TC: What do you feel like the future looks like for NOVA?

SC: So this is 31 years, NOVA, since we started in 1993 and in so many ways, I feel like we’re just getting started. There is, every day around here, there is just so much excitement. And so the future for NOVA is so bright and exciting because we have the foundation of wisdom. We have 31 years of passion. We have an incredible network of dealers and independent pharmacies. And the future is endless possibilities. There are thousands, hundreds of thousands, there’s millions of people out there that we know their lives can be improved, and we’re so much an important part of that. And so I see the future as so exciting and so bright, because there’s so many people out there that we’re going to help.

TC: That’s beautiful. That’s amazing. And I think being able to have the right tools, especially the dealers, having the right tools, and the families and the patients, I feel like NOVA does such a great job providing tools, not just product, but information. And so I love the idea of just the future being: empowering people with knowledge and the ability to know how to improve, what to do. And I think that that empowerment is beyond what we can think of for, you know, human ability.

SC: And when I say potential, you know, I think about these stigmas that are attached to people with disabilities, or the stigma that is attached to what a walker is. And I love the opportunity of changing that, you know, that to me is like disruption. That we can disrupt and change an emotion of fear to courage, and that’s why we have The HME180 and we’re going to be launching these HME 180 stories. Just sharing these stories of empowerment and that we can transform people and that those people can inspire other people. So I am excited about not just the products and the tools and the education, but the stories of inspiration.

And speaking of I wanted to share to end this podcast, you know the story of our dad, which I don’t think many people know. So our dad was diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer when I was one, so this is before you were born. So I was one, and he saw that as a very devastating news. But then he saw that it maybe could be an opportunity, because he was in the military. He went to medical school through the military, and he had another seven years of military service in Taiwan, but this cancer he had required him to get his bladder removed, or he’s on colonostomy, and that discharged him from military service.

So then he’s like, Okay, this is an opportunity. And so he applied for the visa to come to the United States, and he got it. And so a year later, he came to United States, and in that he was thinking about that in chaos, because this diagnosis was chaos for him, lies opportunity, which is a quote from Bruce Lee, someone he greatly admired. And so when he arrived in New York at the Bronx hospital, he changed his name to Dr. Bruce Chen. So that’s where his name came from, and I know I think about that decision to take something that was so devastating as this diagnosis of cancer that he knew would be terminal one day, and to take it as an opportunity, and how it’s changed our lives and the course of NOVA and everyone’s lives that have been touched by NOVA.

And so I my last takeaway is that sometimes life gives you a blow, and you don’t know why. But with love for yourself and also hope and faith, that could be a big shift that could transform your life and other people’s lives

TC: You know how NOVA started? It came from his heart, even though he was devastated with the thought about not being there for us growing up, not being there for our mom, who was so young immigrant, you know, it’s so many layers of challenge ahead, and yet he thought about this idea to not just help our family but the world with products that were innovative, especially for that time, and you’ve taken that innovation to the next level, Sue Chen. So I think that he—being able to take something so devastating and to make it beautiful is a legacy that we, you know, that will always take with us.

SC: We’ll carry forward. Thank you so much for beign on this podcast.

It was my pleasure

SC: I almost like forgot that we were actually recording a podcast. We’re just kinda hanging out and having wonderful conversation together.

TC: Thank you so much for having me, and all you dealers out there and anyone’s who’s listening, there is no—of course I have a bias , but as a physical therapist, I’ve never seen a company care so much. Anybody could call, anybody can make a comment, and there’s somebody listening at this company that is gonna take that comment seriously. They’re gonna care about what happens. And they don’t really have to. They’re on the end where you could just go to the dealer, but they as the distributor, the manufacturer’s side, they really really care. And so, if you wanna be with a company that really cares about you and the products that they’re putting out, this is the place. And I’m so proud to be just a part of it.

SC: Thank you, Tina.

TC: Thank you, Sue.

SC: And thank you for being on this podcast, for listening to this podcast today. I’m feeling emotional. But really appreciate the listeners out there and stay tuned for the next episode of the HME180 Podcast!

TC: Bye!

SC: Bye, thanks Tina!